A group of six skydivers say they came within 70 feet of colliding with a Piper Saratoga (N95T) while they were in freefall at 8,000 feet over Eloy, Arizona, earlier this week. According to one of the jumpers, they left their Otter jump plane at 13,000 feet and 32 seconds later had the close encounter. The plane came close enough that one of the jumpers thinks she was hit by its wake. The incident was captured on video and was reported to the FAA.
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Meatbombs are dangerous!
lol, you win the internet for the day. Parachuters are now meatbombs.
They’ve been called that for years, usually by the jump plane pilots. “Got a summer gig dropping meatbombs.”
Correct. These are people who willingly jump out of a fully functional aircraft, piloted by a perfectly capable pilot. Some of them are thrillseekers, some of them are safety conscious, some of them are 10000 jump veterans and some are students on their first solo. And even though we drop pilots say jumpers away and announce on all known frequencies in mostly NOTAM’d airspace, there will be near misses.
Its these minute details that matter the most when operating with “forced landing traffic”. Parked planes should not have their propellers upright, we try not to taxi in hot zones during jump/ landing ops and we communicate. Chances are that the pilot never once saw the jumpers or was lacking awareness about the jump ops.
I cannot recall how many times I got into hot soup while trying to get the Porter down for reload prior to jumpers being on the ground and had the hair on my back stand up for traffic that just happily ignored the airspace above our field.
What’s your Air to air frequency in the US?
Having dealt with some skydiving operations, I can say there are occasions where the aircraft is not “fully functional” and I’d willingly take my chances jumping out of it.
That would be Eloy Airport E60, with the active NOTAM ABQ 01/014 for parachute jumping 17,500 and below and the parachute symbol on the sectional? ☹️
NOTAMs… ah yes! Those…
We have a couple of airports nearby with both gliders and parachute ops (love the ‘meatbomb’ comment). Fortunately the drop pilots give a verbal ‘warning’ when jumps are in progress and that also helps if you and/or your students are listening.
So glad nobody was harmed (other than elevated heart rates and the purchase of new undies after the encounter).
With the same Pilot who machine guns radio calls to the point you can’t hear the name of the airport or understand the message.
I was about to make the same comment. The jumper pilots seem to be proud of making their calls as fast as is humanly possible. I can rarely understand what they are saying, or where they are.
If you know the drop-zone (DZ) where this happens then try calling them on the phone and ask to speak to their Safety & Training Advisor (S&TA). United States Parachute Association (USPA) drop-zones usually have a senior skydiver with that title to keep things safe(r).
If that doesn’t work then contact the USPA directly: https://www.uspa.org/staff
Or email: safety@uspa.org
Is this on CTAF, or ATC? If the latter doesn’t ATC repeat what the jump pilot says?
If the former, don’t you know where you are to know which CTAF you’re listening to? 🙂 Or is this a case of 122.8 and hearing several airports?
But in all seriousness, if you get a concerning call that you didn’t understand, the simplest and safest approach is to reply “Say again? I’m about to fly directly over an airport, is it yours?” That should get their attention. 😀
Several times I’ve keyed up to get the name of the field on those ridiculous calls and I have yet to get a response.
The very same..One of the busiest dropzones in the country (during cooler months, at least). Flight Following would have warned the Saratoga pilot about this; I’d guess that ATC didn’t call out the ‘Toga traffic to the jump plane when they would have called “2 minutes prior”.to ATC.
So, a few things in the (almost) accident chain. Thankfully, this doesn’t happen frequently, but it does happen. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1993/11/22/Four-die-after-skydiver-hits-plane-in-Mass/3646753944400/, for one, killing all in the plane.
Yes, the very busy jump zone overlaying the intersection of two busy federal airways (V16 & V94), and in some of the busiest primary flight training airspace in the US. There are multiple overlaying jump zone Notams from the boundary of the Phoenix Class B to, and overlapping the boundary of, the Tucson Class C!
I’ve flown to Eloy once, and vowed never again. Got spooked by parachutes everywhere.
Back when I flew jump planes, I was told it was my responsibility as PIC to make sure the airspace below me was clear before letting the jumpers depart the aircraft.
And that is exactly why they do bird-strike tests.
No, wait…
I have recently flown through this area and was amazed with the number of skydiving activity going on. Luckily I was on flight following and the jumping planes are coordinating with ATC and I was given vectors to avoid conflict. To be honest, I was not aware of the PJA airspace depicted on the charts. I am glad I always use FF on x country flights.
Ive done a rides day out of an active drop zone and yes I’m monitoring CTF at the airport and 121.5. Some drop pilots “speed speak” which isn’t helpful. Unpacking this near miss will be interesting. I think it’s unrealistic for the drop pilot to be able to look down and visually clear the column of airspace the jumpers will fall through. ADSB would be helpful but it isnt required. If the Saratoga was IFR he would have gotten a warning from ATC. It’s up to the PIC to be monitoring guard as the last link in the safety chain. As a CFI the vast majority of pilots I fly with do not monitor guard with their second radio. You spend all that money for the Gucci panel, use all the equipment at your disposal!
I’ll bet the Saratoga PIC didn’t see the jumpers and isn’t aware how close he came to disaster.
“Meatbombs” good one! I’m glad we can laugh about it now.
No pictures? it never happened…..
At 8,000 feet, the airplane should have been on an IFR flight plan.
Unless it was climbing or descending THROUGH 8K ft.? Maybe?
Skydivers set their altimeters to “zero” at ground level. So their altimeter would’ve been 8,000 AGL, not MSL. This may not be equal to an IFR cruising altitude.
It’s quite possible this Saratoga was VFR and radio silent.
I have heard that if you leave your weather radar on it scares the jumpers away
Good one!
I only have about 700+ jumps in my few years as an active skydiver, but was witness to several airplanes flying directly across the drop-zone airport while I was in freefall. The closest encounter was when I saw a plane banking sharply away after I deployed my canopy. I can only imagine what the pilot thought when they saw 170 square feet of fabric appear in front of them.
And this was a private airport out in the boonies, not a destination or even a waypoint. It was duly charted with a parachute symbol and published CTAF. All jump calls were made on both the CTAF and local ATC, and local ATC would repeat the call. And ATC would call out traffic to the jump planes.
But that parachute symbol is advisory, not the law. And we were outside of Class B, C, or D airspace so no requirement to talk to… anybody. Or even turn on a transponder. Perfectly legal to fly along fat, dumb, and happy.
Back in 1993 a skydiver collided with a Piper Cherokee, damaging the vertical stabilizer. The skydiver survived. The four people in the Cherokee did not.
Think about that the next time when flying on a “direct to” magenta line, listening to music instead of ATC.
It takes two to have a collision, but only one to avoid it. But the collision-avoidance tools available to skydivers are limited.
But “look before ya leap!” Yup, we do. But in the time it takes to climb out of a plane (especially for a large formation), plus the minute in freefall means even a modest plane can cover several miles. Rare is the person that can spot a plane several miles away, even with ATC or your ADSB telling you where to look….
The obvious FAA solution to this problem is to require every jumper to strap a portable ADS-B/out device to his/her leg. Of course, altitude readout latency could be a problem, but when has practicality been priority for the FAA?
That would require all planes to be equipped with ADS-B IN and have their pilots staring at the screen. Which might be a good thing, maybe then they’ll notice the parachute symbol.
The other issue is ADS-B alerts are typically suppressed with a large difference in altitude. The jumpers were exiting 5,000+ feet above the Saratoga and may not show up at first.
(I can only imagine the poor jump pilot’s GPS yelling “Traffic! Traffic!” because of 22 skydivers with ADS-B Out right behind).
Skydivers don’t “own” the airspace. While there was likely some poor SA and/or risk management on the part of the Saratoga pilot, we all live in a “see and avoid” world.
Skydivers are really hard to see before the chute opens. A lot of us (from experience) know that an airplane flying slowly (you can see it from the deck angle) over a drop zone is probably about to drop some folks, but not everyone knows that or has the experience to know what they’re seeing. That is why jump planes are required to talk to ATC, and that is why the jump pilot (and skydivers?) share responsibility for see and avoid.
Did the jump pilot know about the Saratoga? I’m assuming that (s)he was talking with ATC. Even if the Saratoga didn’t have ADSB-out and/or the jump plane didn’t have ADSB-in, it seems likely that there was a traffic call. And, if there was a traffic call, why did (s)he drop the ‘meatbombs’?
Accidents (and events like this) seldom happen because of only one screw up.
Jump pilots are required by FAR 105.13 to have a radio, make calls before, during, and after dropping skydivers, and discontinue if they lose communication.
VFR pilots are… not. They don’t even have to listen.
Eloy is outside of Class B, so no need to even turn on the transponder.
All that being said, hopefully there’s some LiveATC that detail what was said (or not). But it would’ve been perfectly legal for that Saratoga to be dark and silent. Not safe, mind you, but legal.
This is not rare. NASA’s ASRS has 50 documented parachutist-aircraft conflict reports. FAA’s NMAC database contains 8,781 near midair collision reports. USPA reports 8 fatal skydiving aircraft accidents in the past decade with 25 fatalities. Not good.
Aircraft mixing with jumpers is a known, recurring hazard, not a one-off scare story.
“USPA reports 8 fatal skydiving aircraft accidents in the past decade with 25 fatalities”
Are these crashes all the result of skydivers colliding with a plane in mid-air? Or all crashes involving skydiving operations?
Kirk,
USPA’s “8 fatal skydiving aircraft accidents / 25 fatalities” is not only jumpers getting hit by a random airplane in mid-air. It’s fatalities from accidents tied to skydiving operations: the jump plane on takeoff, climb, jump run, descent back, approach, landing, and sometimes ground hazards around the aircraft. Heres the breakdown. Fatalities itemized (8 fatal skydiving-related aircraft accidents, 25 deaths)
1. Jun 1, 2014 (Middletown, OH) DHC-6-200, 1 fatal (operator employee struck by rotating propeller on ramp).
2. Sep 27, 2015 (Lexington, TX) Cessna 182, 1 fatal (pilot crashed returning after drop).
3. May 23, 2016 (Hanapepe, HI) Cessna 182, 5 fatal (pilot + 4 skydivers).
4. Oct 14, 2016 (Dunnellon, FL) Cessna 208, 1 fatal (skydiver death during the jump sequence; aircraft landed damaged).
5. Aug 25, 2018 (Swainsboro, GA) Cessna 182, 4 fatal (pilot + 3).
6. Jun 21, 2019 (Mokuleia, HI) Beech A90, 11 fatal (pilot + 10).
7. Jun 3, 2022 (Oceanside, CA) Cessna 208B, 1 fatal (one pilot died; training flight for jump ops).
8. May 28, 2023 (Plymouth, NY) Cessna 182D, 1 fatal (pilot).
Total: 25 fatalities.(NTSB)
“USPA’s “8 fatal skydiving aircraft accidents / 25 fatalities” is not only jumpers getting hit by a random airplane in mid-air.”
Actually, none of the accidents listed (going back over a decade) involved a skydiver hitting a plane in mid-air. About as germane to this story as when a local news reporter writing about a small plane crash then proceeds to list every accident that ever occurred at the local airport for the past decade.
“FAA’s NMAC database contains 8,781 near midair collision reports”
That’s a disingenuous factoid. This story is about a near-mid-air collision between a skydiver and a plane. Your post mentions 50 ASRS reports of “parachutist-aircraft conflict reports” and ends with “mixing with jumpers is a known, recurring hazard”. Both true.
But in between those statement you include two unrelated stats. The 8,781 is the TOTAL number of near mid-air collisions between any two aircraft over a 35 year period. It is not the number of parachutist-aircraft conflicts as implied. Plus, as I mentioned elsewhere, the 8 fatal skydiving aircraft accidents over the past ten years did not involve mid-air collisions.
I’m not sure what your point was with including such data.
NGL, I’m quite offended that the sky divers didn’t find this a bonus. What’s better than adding some danger to the danger?
Lots of people consider small planes to be dangerous. So to them it must be a bonus for you to almost hit another plane in flight, right? Exciting, tell me more!
Playing Russian Roulette is dangerous. Skydiving, or simply flying a plane, is risky. The difference is proper equipment, training, and planning. The challenge of managing that risk is part of the enjoyment. A random plane blundering through your path (whether flying of skydiving) is an unmanageable risk, which is dangerous.
There are almost 4 million skydives made each year in U.S. The number of fatalities, just like in general aviation, is very low (last year there were only 9 skydiving fatalities). And, just like in GA, most of those are due to pilot error, not inherent dangers of the activity itself.
That doesn’t look like 70 feet to me. Also, what would be so egregious by the Saratoga here? Most parachute jumping Notams aren’t restrictive last I checked, and the Saratoga was likely perfectly in its right to be there. They didn’t have chutes out yet which makes them very hard to see. There’s risk involved in these activities no matter what, maybe this is just a healthy reminder.
“Most parachute jumping Notams aren’t restrictive last I checked, and the Saratoga was likely perfectly in its right to be there.”
Yup. But legal isn’t always safe. I’m reminded of this bit of poetry:
Here lies the body of William Jay,
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.
Side-stepping the parachute symbol by a few miles and/or getting flight-following (or monitoring the CTAF) will help insure everyone has an uneventful day.
Right on, Kirk. I’d assume a parachutist smacking a Saratoga mid flight would likely take both participants of the accident out. But being perfectly legal to be somewhere is always a good reason to ignore all common sense. 😂
Kirk and Jason, yes for sure legal isn’t always safe. That’s an aviation axiom that one would have to be living under a rock not to accept and abide by.
My point is that even if the Saratoga was using every caution aside from not flying through the Notam’d area (avoiding Notam’d areas is NOT always practical or necessary), this still could have happened.
We don’t know enough details to speculate but the blame seems to be put on the aircraft in many of these comments, and I cannot stand smug conclusions in aviation without consideration given to other perspectives. That is an equally dangerous attitude.
You’re right in that we still do not know all the details about this incident. For instance, we don’t know what radio calls were made, not made, or even blocked. We don’t know what actions were taken (or not taken) by either plane prior to the skydivers exiting.
If you read my posts you will see that I agree with you that the Saratoga was “perfectly in its right to be there.”
However my posts point out that the regulatory burdens that exist for skydiving operators. And how there are almost none for the VFR pilot transiting the same airspace.
Here’s a thought experiment – if a skydiving pilot and ATC made all required calls, and scanned the airspace for miles around, and the VFR pilot “perfectly legally” flew through the charted parachute symbol and NOTAM’ed airspace with no radio or transponder and a collision occurred, to whom would you apply 91.13 “Careless and Reckless Operation”?
I just took a look at the Sectional and supplement for Eloy…..Lawdy!
That little slice of airspace is very busy with a LOT of competing demands.
Within 20 nautical miles (roughly…) for a VFR pilot there are:
A. 2 areas of very high training traffic—Casa Grande and Coolidge
B.. A VOR and multiple Victor airways—-one of which passes across the flipping runway for all practical purposes
C. Approach Control on at least 2 frequencies—split at 8500 ft non the less
D. Multiple CTAF and advisory frequencies for areas and airports along practical flight paths… (122.7, 122.8, 122.9, 123.05, 123.075, 123.7
126.8, 125.25….and prolly some I’m missing)
E. NOTAMed airspace at several different locations
F. and in some ways, the most frustrating issue frequency wise to me, the Eloy airport uses 122.8 for CTAF and 125.25 for parachute operations…..
In my book, that area is set up to fail.
The ‘Toga is not a fast airplane, but within just a few minutes flight time—to try to be on the right frequency for the little block of the frequency patchwork in that area would require multiple changes—and possibly monitoring 2 frequencies if he has that capability.
I can fully understand how the ‘Toga pilot may have not realized they were in harm’s way…not because of neglect, but simply from overload.
Yes—flight following WOULD help—but was it even available to the ‘Toga? ADS-B might have helped, but it is not required over Eloy (unless I’m missing something)—plus, ADS-B wouldn’t see meatbombs…
I don’t know what the answer is—but I can definitely see that a pilot in that airspace can be doing their dead-level best to stay situationally aware and STILL miss something.
I personally HATE flying anywhere near a drop zone. We have a several in our area. When they are jumping, locals will go out of their way to completely avoid the area.
Oh–and–we recently changed our UNICOM frequency because the competing chatter from jump planes at 12.5 and 13.5K ft (makes for HUGE broadcast areas!) just to make communications around our airport more effective and clear….so, yes, we are adding to the sheer number of frequencies that pilots have to monitor——
Thank the Lord that the golden-bee bee rule was in effect….